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Alright, let's get this started. I am gonna propose some basics which should be included somewhere:

  • Free speech is a national right
  • States decide what is the "state religion", however, nobody can be forced to abide by it or follow its practices - it's only a ceremonial thing.
  • States decide on LGBT rights, however, hate crimes are illegal on a national level, and civil unions are legal on a nation level.
  • President has no term limits.
  • Governors have no term limits.
  • Senate may amend the constitution only in cases of more than a third voting in favor.

More as time goes. -Signed by Super Warmonkey, please refer to these pages for more: (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 21:03, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

I want my state to handle to deal with religious rights the way it sees fit. I agree with the free speech, and I'm in favor of the limitless terms. Civil unions are a "meh", however, my constitution will only recognize marriage as between one man and one woman. ((ლ(() (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(() 21:08, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I believe that the constitution should only touch on the relation of the states to the national government. Civil rights, however, I believe should be handled by the states alone. ((ლ(() (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(() 21:12, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
I think you read that wrong. (ᵒᴥᵒ) MineCraftian (Talk) (Duestchland - Texas - Oil City - Skandinavia) (ᵒᴥᵒ) 21:20, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
Indeed I did, thank you MC --Falloutfan08 (talk) 21:22, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
Civil union were suggested to be legal on the national level. However, I feel that the states should decide that, not the nation itself. ((ლ(() (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(() 21:22, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

Never mind then. :3 ((ლ(() (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(() 21:23, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

I think we aren't on the same page. I am saying that CIVIL UNIONS (i.e. not a religious marriage) cannot be denied to gay couples. Viva, that will be highly unlikely for states to make all the civil rights decisions. I may just as well have Apartheid in Broker then, and keep the Mormons, Catholics and Protestants in their own districts. BUT! We have our first issue here! Although this isn't IC yet, I think we need to get in the game of democracy. :) -Signed by Super Warmonkey, please refer to these pages for more: (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 21:25, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. While I am partial in regards to civil unions, I don't think it is beyond the state's ability to handle them. And I'm not to fond about the number of decisions needed to handle civil unions, since I thought it was just a yes or no thing. Regardless, I would be the man to say if a gay couple wants a civil union, they should get it in another state and return to their own. Kinda like the quicky marriages one get find in Las Vegas. ((ლ(() (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(() 21:36, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

This boils down to will you as the state give civil unions their benefits if they are gay? I am not too sure if civil unions to get any benefits, though. -Signed by Super Warmonkey, please refer to these pages for more: (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 21:39, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

"...if a gay couple wants a civil union, they should get it in another state and return to their own." I believe thats what I said. I'm not going to force gays to flight to another state simply to get a civil union, but I'm not to going to my officials to provide them if they don't. ((ლ(() (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(() 21:41, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

My question remains the same: if they get the union in another state, and they return to your state, will the union still be valid? -Signed by Super Warmonkey, please refer to these pages for more: (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 21:44, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

Oh. Absolutely. I'm not going to boot them out for that. All I ask is that the not get the civil union in Ixania. It'll still be valid upon return. ((ლ(() (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(() 22:06, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

Votes[]

States must have limitless jurisdiction over civil rights[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST

Free speech is a national right[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST

States decide on religious matters, however can FORCE nobody to abide by a certain religion or its practices[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST

Limitless terms for elected officials (unlimited number of terms - not unlimited term length)[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST
ABSTAIN

Constitution can only be amended when 75% of the Senate votes in favor[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST
ABSTAIN

Right To Bear Arms[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST
ABSTAIN


COUNTER - States make gun laws/restrictions[]

Freedom of the Press[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST
ABSTAIN

Right to Protest/Assembly[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST


ABSTAIN

Due Process/Justice[]

(Including right to remain silent, non-self incrimination, right to attorney, to fair trial, trial by jury, bail, restriction of inhumane punishment/treatment, innocent until proven guilty, warrants)

IN FAVOR
AGAINST
  • -Sunkist- (talk) 22:37, September 5, 2012 (UTC) Älskadeland would like to remains an Napoleonic Code of Guilty untill proven innocent, we do not seek to force this upon other states. But will abide to the laws of this congress if so (passed in favored of innocent until proven guilty) wished by the federal government.
  • ((ლ(() (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(() 22:31, September 5, 2012 (UTC) That actually sounds much better than the current state of affairs.
ABSTAIN

Civil Instructions Act (all states must obey the national constitution)[]

IN FAVOR
  • -Signed by Super Warmonkey, please refer to these pages for more: (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 13:32, September 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • -Sunkist- (talk) 21:15, September 8, 2012 (UTC)
  • It should be noted, that if this is an article of the constitution, it is not an Act. An act is a law passed by congress after the constitution was ratified. Woogers - talk (Flag of IvaliceFlag of the East Asian Federation) 18:48, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
AGAINST
ABSTAIN

Constituent states of the Republic are free to establish their own legislative bodies as they see fit[]

Would be entered as a Section beneath Article Two: Legislature.

IN FAVOR
AGAINST
ABSTAIN

English is the official language of government[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST
ABSTAIN

States are free to designate additional languages, if so desired, for use within state government[]

IN FAVOR
AGAINST
ABSTAIN

Motion from the gentleman from Älskadeland[]

(If Premission if given from the Chair, but seeing as there is no leader currently..I'll just do this a pre-trial to how the system will work, and also to fix on the Civil Unions issue, as well with states following the law)

Senator Thorsten Egi (Älskadeland): ​"The State of Älskadeland would like to make a motion to lay on the table the bill of Civil Instructions Act which will declare as follow."


"Section One: All federal, state, county, city and civil institutions shall be enforced to abide to the Constitution, and shall not decline any obligated title. If the state, federal or any other civil institution that fails on it's duties as a representative for the Republic of Atlion shall face discharge, without paid leave. "
"Section Two: States inside the Atlion Republic shall not disobey the Constitution of Atlion in which all citizens inside the state of Atlion are given by. States constitutions may not override the constitution of Atlion, and may not make unreasonable or corruptible maneuvers to sway itself around the constitution in a manner seen dis-pleasurable by the people."


Senator Thorsten Egi (Älskadeland): "We'd ask the chair for a voice vote on the issue, I resume my time, and await the vote. Thank you chairman."

Senator Tenneh Ganda (Honorable Union of Ixania): "This oversteps the bounds of the national government, and completely ignores the will of the people who desire to follow the laws they voted for."

Senator Thorsten Egi (Älskadeland): "Mr. Chairman, I'd like to repose the time for the motion to tomorrow and also propose that the law be counted by ballot. I also like to open the chamber for debate, as suggested from the Senator from Ixania. Thank you chairman. Senator Ganda, I'd like to inform you, that we are a united republic, we are here to insure that all people in this entire nation are treated equally. The people voted to allow civil marriages inside the state, this has been already voted on, it is you and your state government that refuse to listen to the voice of the people, thus I have sumited this law to destroy any of these around about laws that would try and destroy this powerful union. "

Senator Tenneh Ganda (Honorable Union of Ixania): "I, my government, and my people are Ixanian. The Ixanian people voted to follow the laws regarding civil unions as they defined them. The voice of the Ixanian people regarding Ixanian laws is all the matters to them. Looking after the calls of a tiny, tiny minority to overturn the popular law of the majority is ridiculous. You would be alienating the industrial heart of Albion, and pushing the largest source of soldiers for Atlion's army away as the nation they seek to defend steps on their ability to voice their rights to choose the laws they follow. This is a republic, and the people of Ixania have spoken."

Senator Thorsten Egi (Älskadeland): "How would we even be effecting the economy of Ixanian, when..it's just between two people and a judge in a court room on a day when no trials are being taken place. No one is being effect by this, only the tiny minority of the people in the state are being effected, just let the people live happily. How does this even take anything into consideration with the military?"

Senator Tenneh Ganda (Honorable Union of Ixania): "Allow me to put like this. When you suggest overriding the laws vote on by Ixanian people to placate the unnatural desires of a minority, Ixanian businessmen lose faith in the mainland government, and keeping loyal to their faith and nation, they sell their goods elsewhere. Ixanian men and women won't serve for a nation that ignores their voice. Ixania is, once again, the industrial heartland of Atlion. Most of the equipment your people use has been manufactured in Ixania. You alienate Ixania by way of laws the Ixanian people don't like, and you'll find the cost of goods in your state go up as the Ixanian factories sell their good elsewhere. We are a religious people, and we won't bow to the demands of a minority. We aren't refusing to obey the constitution, we just choose not to follow a law that we find insulting to our faith."

Senator Thorsten Egi (Älskadeland): "Well, hopefully for you that this law dosn't pass. Please take your empty threats somewhere else, and it seems that Ixania needs to stop acting like it's own country and respect the law of this union. If you don't want to sell your states equipment, we can find other loyal corporations in this widly diverse union of ours."

Senator Tenneh Ganda (Honorable Union of Ixania): "These aren't threats, and your inability to understand that is what wll drive this nation apart. Ixania joined this union with the expection that our voice would still be heard. However, you living on the other side of Albion living on a farm in the middle of nowhere. Yor trying to push a law on Ixania which my people against. However, the more we have to endure our rights being stepped on, the more my people will desire sovereignty."

Senator Thorsten Egi (Älskadeland): "This middle of nowhere feeds you, and half of this country..you are part of this country, now act like your part of this union, or leave. You act as if Älskadeland is nothing on the national stage, then why even worry about me talking right now? The mainland will vote with me, and you'll HAVE to respect the laws of this union. "

Senator Tenneh Ganda (Honorable Union of Ixania): "This state can find other places to get its food, and it is already doing its part to find ways of feeding itself. The mainland can burn if it votes against the people of Ixania. You can't force a worker in the "free world" to do what your state demands. If they wish to take a leave of absence so as not to offend their religion by doing something of the sort that lead to this argument, that is their right. And it is because of the great patiance and trust in the government to do the right thing that Ixania remains in this union."

Senator Garry Neil (State of Broker): "With all due respect, my honorable colleague from Ixania, this is not the United States, where this 'states' rights' story means something. Our states' rights are defined within this constitution you so wish to disobey. The people of the Republic of Atlion, by choosing us as their representation, have decided to not allow you to do this. Now, whether or not you wish to obey the provisions of this constitution is entirely your problem, however, like it or not, the constitution is legally binding. You can provide reasons from Broker through to the North; that won't change anything. If this law passes, which, on the record, I vote in favor of, you will be without one doubt be required to obey this constitution. If you do not, this case will be taken to the Supreme Court. This could lead to a federal judge ordering the arrest of all those conspiring to officially disobey the highest law in the land."

Senator Tenneh Ganda (Honorable Union of Ixania): "That would be 99% of all government officials in Ixania. Are you going to shut down our government just to help a few thousand fools who don't want to travel to another state to get their civil unions? You have nearly all of my state saying they never voted for such a law and expect their voice to be heard. If you deny them their right to protest, then you are violating the Constitution yourself.

Senator Garry Neil (State of Broker): "Now don't go putting words in my mouth - you can protest whatever you want and we do hear their voice, however, this democratically elected Senate will vote on provisions for this constitution, and whatever they may be, are the highest law in the land. You are sitting on a big island which is the property of the federal government of the Republic of Atlion - this constitution is legally binding. You will be violating a LEGALLY BINDING contract with this republic if you fail to enforce its laws. We all have to abide by what passes this Senate, not only you. The State of Broker wanted to regulate gun laws themselves, however, this Senate made the right to bear arms a national right, and we have to enforce this Senate's wishes. You are not alone if you are unhappy with certain provisions of this constitution, but that doesn't mean we can violate it."

Senator Tenneh Ganda (Honorable Union of Ixania): "Ixania is not the government's property. They didn't cultivate it, urbanize it, make it livable out of the hellhole it originally was. Ixania was an empire once, and Ixania is the property of the Ixanian people. We chose to join their union, not to hand over our land, our resources, and our children for your wars. The federal government's true holdings on Ixania are "small". So your little point about Ixania being the property of the government is wrong, you can't even make that arguement. Now, how are Ixanian government officials, who choose to take a leave of absence to protest their disagreement with a wildly unpopular law in Ixania, violating the constitution when they haven't said "No" to anything which does violate the consititution?"

Senator Garry Neil (State of Broker): "Oh boy. Mister Chairman, I do hope you close this debate off quickly and tally the votes, my honorable colleague from Ixania has just displayed the worst form of incompetence I have seen on this floor in years. I have nothing further." <sits down>

Governor Zéphyrin l'Noir (Honorable Union of Ixania): My now, isn't that very rude. A woman taking a stand for her people is incompetance? I am insulted. I wish to end this fighting before the stabbing begins, and wish to propose an idea if you will hear me. Now my people are very religious, and doing what you have suggested is going anger them because of their vowes. Now, I would like to suggest that the federal government establish a small court where judges and the like from the mainland may hand out the civil unions to this minority group. THis way, both groups are happy. Will you accept this offer?


Boom, there we have it. This is the reason why this won't work with you Viva, you'll just be your own country in this..and it's really just pointless for you in the end. This is the reason we made the game, to simulate a country in which people have to vote as such, we are not our own nations. So, now I'll treat Ixania as its own country and not part of Atlion, and I refuse to roleplay as such. -Sunkist- (talk) 06:35, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

Actually you've got the wrong. I was perfectly fine with the current state of affairs until you started pushing a law that my state didn't approve of. The states are suppose to be able to vote yes, but what's the point of doing that if you completely ignore what the majority of a state's population wants? My state's population was content. I gave my officials the ability to walk out of a civil union case, and thus I broke no law. Your trying to force citizens of a free country to do something you want. The constitution allows gays to get a civil union, but not to force government workers to provide them. They can't say no, but they can leave their post until further notice. Your trying to pass a law that strips them of their right to choose. The game won't work if you feel the need to stomp on my state's rights. ((ლ(() (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ(() 07:04, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

New draft[]

First, I will come up with a set of key points, then I will come up with fluffy writing. Woogers - talk (Flag of IvaliceFlag of the East Asian Federation) 19:47, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

Include everything we've decide on so far, so that we can simplify things for the future. -Signed by Warmonkey (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 19:52, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

Talking points[]

My internet has been restored, after being forced to update to Windows 8. So, let's get this new discussion underway.

Proposed tenets of the Constitution of Atlion[]

  • The general aim of the Constitution is to ensure and preserve the rights of men of the Republic of Atlion. (basic text)
  • Sovereignty resides in and is exercised by the Republic. No other entity may exercise sovereignty over the nation that is not proceeded from the Republic. (basic text)
  • Basic freedoms (basic text)
    • Freedom of Speech
    • Freedom to Assemble and Protest
    • Freedom to Express Oneself
    • Freedom of the Press
    • Freedom of Religion
      • Ceremonial state religion allowable as a part of state cultural heritage when approved by 75% of eligible residents in a referendum.(amendment)
        • No citizen shall be forced to adhere to the state religion or be forced to not adhere to a specific religion at the order of the state.
    • Freedom to Bear Arms
      • States shall have the power to regulate the movement of arms within the state within reasonable limits to shield innocents from lawlessness and anti-establishment activities. (amendment)
    • Freedom to Exercise Due Process
      • Fair and free trials
      • Innocent until proven guilty
      • Criminal rights
  • Law created by the Senate or any other body will not issue punishments beyond what is deemed fair and necessary, immoral, cruel, and unusual punishments are deemed illegal. (amendment).
  • Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, age, gender, sexuality is outlawed at the federal level for government practices and businesses (contracting) and social net programs (amendment(s))
    • States should, but are not bound to, pass anti-discrimination laws covering state and local government and private commerce and industry. Varying levels of control based on state cultural values.
    • Said amendments should be phased in over history. Suggested order (following real-life trends): age and religion, gender, race, sexuality.
  • Senators may be re-elected to an unlimited amount of terms. (Basic text)
    • (I do not think that it is wise for the president to be infinitely re-electable)
    • State constitutions, county and municipal charters set forth term limits for state and local officials.
  • Senate can amend constitution with two-thirds of senators approving.
  • Direct referenda for constitutional amendments may be approved with one-tenth of the national population approving a valid referenda petition and one-half of eligible voters approving referenda in a national ballot. (amendment)
  • States and state-level entities can establish a state-level government to regulate the affairs of residents and territory of states.
    • Legislature
    • Executive complex
      • Executive office
      • Civil Service
      • Delegation of powers to municipal governments
    • Judiciary
  • The government recognizes the right of all citizens to seek employment with a minimum living wage and citizens are guaranteed assistance to procure said employment. (amendment)
  • Citizens are given the basic right of basic preventative healthcare as provided by the government. (amendment)
  • A nationally levied tax is necessary for the maintenance of the Republic and the security of its citizens. (basic text)
  • In order to draft laws for the governing of the Republic, a Senate shall be formed of representatives of each state; Senate representation shall be equally apportioned to states based on population. An election shall be held each year to appoint representatives to the senate. (basic text)
  • An area to provide for a national capital shall be designated, free from the influence of states, in a location approved by the states. (basic text, effected by the National Capital Act approved after the constitution)

Discuss[]

Please discuss and propose new terms. Woogers - talk (Flag of IvaliceFlag of the East Asian Federation) 03:24, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

It seems good. About the president thing, what are your objections? I mean, we aren't a lot of players, so if there comes a good president, we'd want to reelect them until someone better comes along. Also, I propose we add to the document something about the capital and the elections every year, as well as campaign limits. -Signed by Warmonkey (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 12:21, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

I don't mean OOC president, I mean IC historical president. I'll add about the capital and elections. Woogers - talk (Flag of IvaliceFlag of the East Asian Federation) 18:24, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, if it doesn't extend to OOC presidents, then we can limit them to perhaps two terms (two years)? -Signed by Warmonkey (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 18:42, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Are we seriously going forth with annual elections? Woogers - talk (Flag of IvaliceFlag of the East Asian Federation) 05:22, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Would you rather have it monthly? :/ -Signed by Warmonkey (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 11:27, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Other direction. Woogers - talk (Flag of IvaliceFlag of the East Asian Federation) 15:11, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

We are just a few people, how would a two year term work? -Signed by Warmonkey (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 15:13, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Woogers, you need to put this in text, I have work to do with the Department of Justice. -Signed by Warmonkey (talkcontribs) Flag of the Allied States of America 23:33, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

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